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08-17-2010, 03:29 PM #1
How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
I am going an inspection on a foreclosure and the control half of the thermostat is missing. The thermostat base and wiring is visibile, but the control part is missing. I am inspecting this house for a friend and the house is pretty bad shape. He just asked me if I can at least put jumper wires on the unit to find out if the unit will even operate. Anyone know if this is possible and any tips of starting this HVAC up without an thermostat?
Thanks
Gene
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08-17-2010, 04:49 PM #2
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
the Red wire is 28v
the Green wire is Indoor fan
the Yellow wire is Compressor
the White wire is Heat
the Orange wire is the SOV (switch over valve) for heat pumps
the Black wire is Emergency or Secondary Heat " " "
Jumper what you want to happen to the Red wire. e.g.
Red to Green and Yellow for normal air-conditioner to run.
The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.
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08-17-2010, 07:06 PM #3
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
If it is for a friend, then that is one thing. But I have had experience with doing that sort of thing and can tell you that it is a can of worms if the agent sees you do this.
Several years ago, I had a wall heater that would not operate, so I put a jumper to see if it was the heater or the thermostat. The heater still did not operate, but the agent (who did not understand what I had done) mentioned it to the listing agent and it got back to the seller who demanded that I replace the heater because I "broke" it. Didn't and didn't. But, I also will not do anything other than operate the thermostat any longer.
Department of Redundancy Department
Supreme Emperor of Hyperbole
http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/
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08-18-2010, 06:26 AM #4
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Vern has shown you the way to do it. But, I had the exact same scenario last week except it was not for a friend.... I told my client that I could not turn the HVAC on because the thermostat control was missing. I was not about to jumper the wires as it would not be a proper inspection of the system with a missing thermostat.
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08-18-2010, 07:48 AM #5
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Be carefull not to ground out the system. It will blow the step down transformer.
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08-18-2010, 09:27 AM #6
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
The simplest way around this sort of issue is to carry an inexpensive replacement thermostat in your vehicle, preferably one that can function on either a standard split system or a heat pump setup. <$25.
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08-18-2010, 04:19 PM #7
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
"The simplest way" ... is to report what you found - no thermostat - and call for the system to be checked by an a/c contractor.
Not only is it the "simplest way" but it is also the safest way (electrically speaking and monetarily speaking) as that way *you* did not change or alter anything (and installing a thermostat you carry with you could still result in Gunnar's experience).
Home inspectors need to get out of the thinking that they need to "fix things" to make them work just so they can then write those same things up for repair.
Think about the illogic in that.
It is like keeping a terminally ill person who is on death row alive just so you can kill him when he comes up on the schedule.
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08-19-2010, 02:39 AM #8
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
The simplest way" ... is to report what you found - no thermostat - and call for the system to be checked by an a/c contractor.
Not only is it the "simplest way" but it is also the safest way (electrically speaking and monetarily speaking) as that way *you* did not change or alter anything (and installing a thermostat you carry with you could still result in Gunnar's experience).
Home inspectors need to get out of the thinking that they need to "fix things" to make them work just so they can then write those same things up for repair.
Think about the illogic in that.
It is like keeping a terminally ill person who is on death row alive just so you can kill him when he comes up on the schedule.
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08-19-2010, 03:46 AM #9
the ghost of AD Miller
Looks like A.D. "Elliot Franson" is back and just as charming as ever.
I think it is very much on point to question starting a unit that is missing its t'stat. You don't know why it is missing. You don't know what you may damage by running the system as is. If they want the AC inspected then the seller should have it placed into working order prior to your inspection. This is akin to turning on water, gas or electric service that has been shut off.
Keep the fire in the fireplace.
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08-19-2010, 07:05 AM #10
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Be careful on the heat pumps, reversing valves vary from manufacturer and can be cool active or heat active. Most cool active units need the O wire, G wire, and the Y wire energized for cooling. Heat active units will just need the Y and G for cooling.
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08-19-2010, 08:23 AM #11
Re: the ghost of AD Miller
OK
So...If an HVAC man comes into a home, inspects the system and all appears to be in order, everything appears to be hooked up, the only thing that is missing is the thermostat that may very well have been knocked off the wall and broken when moving, the home is vacant and trashed, a client wants to know at the very least if the system is going to kick on and if the AC or heat actually blows hot or cold just so he does not have to put major money out immediately for one component of the home right away......and you are going to do what....Hook a thermostat up or jumper the wires to check further what might be going on or not??????
The point is that this home is fairly well known to be pretty much a dump that someone does not mind buying but does not want an immediate 5, 6, 7000 on a new system before they touch anything.
All other points are pretty much mute. No....I am not just sticking up for a fellow Texan because I would never do this for a client in a home inspection.
Jerry
My goodness......."keeping a man alive on death row just so you can kill him later"
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08-19-2010, 08:35 AM #12
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08-19-2010, 08:58 AM #13
Re: the ghost of AD Miller
I think it is very much on point to question starting a unit that is missing its t'stat. You don't know why it is missing. You don't know what you may damage by running the system as is. If they want the AC inspected then the seller should have it placed into working order prior to your inspection. This is akin to turning on water, gas or electric service that has been shut off.
It is truly no wonder that so many HIs are confused about many issues when one considers the seeming total disregard for reason often encountered on this forum and others. Just my opinion.
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08-19-2010, 10:03 AM #14
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08-19-2010, 11:00 AM #15
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Not from not knowing wither the SOV is energized in the heating or cooling mode.
The only damage that can be caused by jumping the control wires is, as stated by someone, shorting the 28v to ground. The worst case would be to burn out the transformer which is about $18. Many of the transformers are protected by a replaceable fuse, about 75 cents. (Don't touch the red wire to the cabinet or neutral wire, if present!)
The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.
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08-19-2010, 01:37 PM #16
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
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08-19-2010, 03:50 PM #17
Re: why to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
You don't know why it was removed or disabled. you fire it up and kill the compressor because the oil has not had a chance to heat up. As DB stated, you can fry a control board, which would cost you SEVERAL hundred $$ when you include the first trip out for a tech to diagnose the problem, then order the part, go get it ,then come back and put it in, then run a system check. If anything is is going bad such as a capacitor, contactor, etc. they will surely try to dump that cost in your lap as well. Just does not seem justified to me. Now, with some of the newer equipment, you may have more than one compressor. What if they disabled it because the fan was noisy but your running it before it could be cleaned caused it to die before the tech could clean it? What if the filter was missing and you sucked a bunch of crap into the A coil and HX?
FYI, I've seen t'stats pulled because the homeowner was scared to touch the distrbution panel breakers or physically could not get there so they pulled the stat.
Keep the fire in the fireplace.
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08-19-2010, 04:38 PM #18
Re: why to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
You would be hard pressed to show a way that anything other than the transformer could be damaged by jumpering the low voltage wiring. You can't "fry" the control board even if you tied all of the wires together. If the oil is not warm by now, it never will be!
The house in question is a repo. The thermostat went the same way as the ceiling fans, mirrors, refrigerator, stove, etc. They took them! Nobody was trying to protect the equipment.
The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.
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08-19-2010, 05:14 PM #19
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Department of Redundancy Department
Supreme Emperor of Hyperbole
http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/
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08-19-2010, 05:16 PM #20
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
If this was for a friend, then I would call my other friend thats a HVAC guy and have him stop by.
If it was for a paying client, I'm not going to touch it and tell them to get a HVAC guy to check it out.
Jump wires? Carry a cheap thermostat? Not me! While I'm pretty comfortable with plumbing stuff, and can do a bunch of electrical things, I am lacking in HVAC repair skills.
I don't mind putting in light bulbs to check light fixtures. Mostly I only put them in the fixtures where I need light.
I carry a little cap to shut off ice maker lines that some yahoo has left open.
I have even added nuts and bolts to pull down ladders so I feel safer going up and down.
But I draw the line at doing a McGyver on a HVAC system. Maybe just me.
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08-19-2010, 05:29 PM #21
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08-19-2010, 05:39 PM #22
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
If the stat is missing and you start jumpering wires you have stepped outside your scope of work as a HI.
Call in a HVAC guy or call it out as stat missing.
Since this is for a friend it might be a little different as he would hopefully be a bit more understanding if the transformer got fried.
Measured Performance more than just a buzzword
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08-19-2010, 05:56 PM #23
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
"There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com
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08-19-2010, 08:57 PM #24
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08-19-2010, 08:59 PM #25
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08-20-2010, 03:53 AM #26
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Darren www.aboutthehouseinspections.com
'Whizzing & pasting & pooting through the day (Ronnie helping Kenny helping burn his poots away!) (FZ)
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08-20-2010, 08:54 AM #27
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Legionnaires
In honor of those who have no defense!
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08-20-2010, 09:37 AM #28
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
shouldn't it be "we are a disease?"
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08-20-2010, 10:16 AM #29
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08-20-2010, 11:06 AM #30
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08-20-2010, 03:49 PM #31
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
I would reply in latin but, I tend to be more direct. The joke would be someone that feels the need to invent different personalities to remain on a board that obviously has little or no use for them. Your intelligence is constantly overshadowed by your lack of respect for others, an unwillingness to admit any mistakes and, to be honest, I think your time would be better spent surfing porn sites. I wish you well in your future personalities and I pray for your family.
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08-21-2010, 07:23 AM #32
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08-21-2010, 03:27 PM #33
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
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08-21-2010, 05:21 PM #34
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for this thread going awry. It seems I could not resist the bait. While Elliot,Ed,Aaron or whatever his latest incarnation is, found my words abusive, rest assured they were sincere. Brian will have the last word on this, as he should.
Last edited by David Bell; 08-21-2010 at 07:29 PM.
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08-22-2010, 09:51 AM #35
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08-22-2010, 09:52 AM #36
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08-22-2010, 11:08 AM #37
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
this is destroying the whole purpose of Inspection News. I come hear for tips and knowledge not this. Can someone tell me how to ingore this guys Elliot
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08-22-2010, 01:12 PM #38
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
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08-23-2010, 04:53 AM #39
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Unless you are a licensed HVAC contractor do not attempt to rewire. This goes beyond the scope of an inspection and you assume liability.
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08-23-2010, 10:39 AM #40
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08-23-2010, 02:00 PM #41
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
I inspected a foreclosure today and the A/C did not work when operated with the thermostat. The heat worked fine. Upon inspecting the condensate pump I saw the wire to the float switch had been disconnected. At her request after a brief lesson in HVAC controls I hooked it back up and the condensing unit started humming but did not come on. Since this was an as-is sell the lady buying the house was glad to know that the A/C does not work. I see that as no difference as jumping out a thermostat and it will help her make up her mind as to what she is going to do.
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08-23-2010, 02:44 PM #42
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Last edited by David Bell; 08-23-2010 at 02:49 PM.
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08-23-2010, 02:50 PM #43
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Had power and the compressor relay pulled in....so in my opinion it did not work. The wire was probably disconnected because it was not working but you never can tell without checking.
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08-23-2010, 03:01 PM #44
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
This thread has simply amazed me at the number of folks who would attempt to try and start up an HVAC system with the thermostat missing! Yet, I bet nobody who would wire up a spare thermostat or jumper the wires together would ever think about turning on a water valve to a sink, toilet, or whatever if it was turned off. Ya know, the more I thought about it I bet they would turn every off valve they found in a home.
Simply stated; If the thermostat is missing the system does not work! That is what you need to report....
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08-23-2010, 03:18 PM #45
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
It would have done this lady no good for me to tell her the A/C did not work. She already knew that since it was sitting there not doing anything. Now she knows that even with power applied it still does not work without spending $120 for a service call to tell her the A/C does not work. This is an as-is sell so no repairs are being done by the seller. Plus the NC SOP allows me to do that if qualified.
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08-23-2010, 03:32 PM #46
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
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08-23-2010, 03:41 PM #47
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08-23-2010, 03:41 PM #48
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
I, for one, don't carry that many spare parts...Only use what the good lord gave me.
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08-23-2010, 03:44 PM #49
where does it end?
Or, following Rick's lead, what if the outdoor disconnect was missing and you have a spare on your truck that matched that box. Would you insert the disconnect and power up the condenser? What if it is a fused disconnect with the fuses missing? Would you provide fuses and attempt to run it?
The seller knew the stat was partially disasembled and missing. They knew why this was so when they listed the house. There should be something in the disclosure form even if it is being sold 'as is'. They knew no one would be able to fire up that AC without it, which is apparently what they wanted, even if it meant a lower price for the house. Their choice. As Scott said, document the missing stat, which precluded you from running the AC. You can document the presence of an A coil and outdoor condenser but note you were unable to run them-done.
FYI, it is illegal for a H.I. to do this in Delaware. You cannot 'repair' any part of an HVAC system unless you hold an HVAC license and New Castle Co, De WILL fine you. Know your local laws.
Keep the fire in the fireplace.
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08-23-2010, 04:14 PM #50
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
I know my laws....I do hold a NC Mechanical license. I have stated that before and did not see a need to repeat myself until now.
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08-24-2010, 06:31 AM #51
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08-24-2010, 06:54 AM #52
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
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08-24-2010, 07:04 AM #53
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08-24-2010, 08:07 AM #54
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08-24-2010, 10:36 AM #55
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
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08-24-2010, 11:41 AM #56
Re: where does it end?
From NC General Statutes Chapter 87, Article 2.
(c) To Whom Article Applies. – The provisions of this Article shall apply to all persons, firms, or corporations who engage in, or attempt to engage in, the business of plumbing, heating, or fire sprinkler contracting, or any combination thereof as defined in this Article. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to those who make minor repairs or minor replacements to an already installed system of plumbing or heating, but shall apply to those who make repairs, replacements, or modifications to an already installed fire sprinkler system.
The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.
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08-24-2010, 01:17 PM #57
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
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08-24-2010, 03:16 PM #58
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
They stab it with their steely knives, But they just can't kill the beast.
Dude...AD...
Best
Ron
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08-24-2010, 04:25 PM #59
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
’relax,’ said the night man,
We are programmed to receive.
You can checkout any time you like,
But A.D. can never leave!
So see, he's still welcome.
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08-24-2010, 05:27 PM #60
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
On a dark inspection website, He got thrown off for a post, He said that he did nothing wrong, but he did piss off the host, He went back to his man cave, and invented a new name, The people all new who he was, cause he acted just the same. Chorus here
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08-24-2010, 05:33 PM #61
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
Scott, the new pic is much better.
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08-25-2010, 06:16 AM #62
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
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08-25-2010, 11:15 AM #63
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
I can't see him due to the reflection of the lights.
rick
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08-25-2010, 11:21 AM #64
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08-25-2010, 04:57 PM #65
Re: How to start an AC unit when thermostat is missing
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