Inspection Cancelled

[William Mize]

I was scheduled to do an inspection this afternoon, The buyer called me and said the VA mortgage appraiser had called for (1) a Licensened Roofer to inspect the roof, and (2) for a Licensened HVAC repairman to inspect the HVAC. In Oklahoma there is no such thing as a Licensened Roofer, The village idiot can grab a ladder and a hammer and be in the roofing business. The lady at the local bank said they wanted someone who did roofing full time and had an ad in the phone book. The HVAC inspection they want a repairman to tell them the furnace and AC works.

I know I am not the first to run into this situation and would like to be able to inspect these VA houses. I feel (I Know) I give a better and more comprehensive inspection than just a roofer and a HVAC guy.

Comments, Ideas

Thanks I needed to vent a little

Willie

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[Jim Luttrall]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you OK guys are required to be licensed now, right?
If so, I would reply to the person at the bank or where ever, that although the state does not license roofers, they do license inspectors. Here is my license number and qualifications, you can see my ad on page xxx of the local phone book. Any other questions?
I will be happy to call out any other licensed trade person for the specialized inspection, but it will be more costly for my client.
BTW, the inspection is for the client, not the bank or the VA... I recommend NEVER sharing the inspection report with the bank if possible. Talk about screwing up your client, banks are only there to protect their interest and to make money.

[Rick Hurst]

While on this subject, today I had a client who informed me that a HVAC contractor would be out at the home while we were there.

The guy shows up, walked into the garage straight to the attic ladder and up to the attic he went.

5 minutes later he's down and says everything looks great.

I asked him exactly what he had done. He told me he stabbed the return air vent and the supply with the typical temperature probes we all probably have in the tool bag.

Walked around to the condensing unit, did a visual on it in 3 minutes and wrote out an invoice for 125. stating the cooling was performing as intended.
Not (1) gauge was put on to check anything.

I asked him about the refrigerant line insulation missing at the attic line, the rusted out drain pan, and openings around the plenum.

He said and I quote, "I don't want to piss off the Realtor on this one, because we make a sh*&load off repairs from this agent."

Even the HVAC biz I see now is corrupted of looking out for the agents best interest instead of the client.

Go figure.

[Jim Luttrall]

Did you see the 60 minutes story Sunday about the on-line discount realtors? It pointed out the turf war going on to try and shut down anybody that charges less than 6%. I got notice from NAR (I get the notices since I have the Supra key) telling the realtors an their friends to write CBS to voice their displeasure with the way the story was presented without NAR spokesman... Said they had been working closely with CBS for months to get their side of the story out. They were not happy!

[Richard Rushing]

Yeah... I have a broker Supra Key and I get all the same crap via email. Some of it is down right funny.

'CALL TO ARMS!!' type stuff.

[William Mize]

Jim you are right Home inspectors in Oklahoma do have to be licensened or have a higher license: electrician or Structural Engineer or what ever. The roofers do not have to be licensened and I do not think there are any restrictions on them.

Larry, some times it is better not to get the job, especially if the potential customer has her lawyer call you before hand. I hate to lose jobs but thank the Lord because he protects me.

Larry I lived in Ponca City for several years in the 90's and know some of the realtors and most of the old mechanics around. My question is do you have buffalo gnats the size of house flies this year since there has been a little more rain.

Willie

[Randy Aldering]

Sounds like the buyers were a bit uneducated. The lawyer as well. A good rebuttal question to the lawyer might have been "do you have a problem with peace-meal case work?" I might have suggested that he was creating an opening for a malpractice lawsuit against him, due to his failure to properly protect his client. I might have asked him point-blank on the telephone if there were any conflicts of interest between himself and the contractors hired to "inspect" various systems. After all, he did say that was exactly how he had worked his "inspections" in his own deals, right? Any chance these guys were also clients of his? I might have left him with the idea that there was a strong smell of collusion, and that I would be backing out of the deal. I probably would have informed my client of that, just before backing out. But that would be me, and I don't recommend folks imitate what I might do, unless they have a lot of fortitude, and have at least once told a judge to shut up, and had gotten away with it, because I was right.

[Wen Myrick]

Willie,

I can't count the cancelled Inspections I have had, not to mention the bogus wild goose chases !
I have encountered clients that weren't even pre-qualified to make a purchase. Then been whined to by Seller after they made repairs as per the report.

I have been hired by the buyer and been on a HI at the same time as a competitive HI'r that was hired by the buyers agent ??!!

I have had many "party" HI's (Sellers, Their agent, Buyers, Their agent, Pest inspector, Appraiser, My Trainee and Myself) where you trip over everyone and have to keep a really close eye on your tools.

The HI's I avoid are;
Those that are persistent in trying to negotiate a discount,
Those that ask for my E&O policy # and Provider,
Those from Realtors that ask me to "go easy"

Intuition is a built in sense aka: gut feeling
Pay attention to it !

~Wen~

[Victor DaGraca]

Hey Wen......
Then there's my favorite.
Paranoia is nothing more than a well honed sense of self preservation.

[Don Norman]

I was scheduled to do an inspection this afternoon, The buyer called me and said the VA mortgage appraiser had called for (1) a Licensened Roofer to inspect the roof, and (2) for a Licensened HVAC repairman to inspect the HVAC. In Oklahoma there is no such thing as a Licensened Roofer, The village idiot can grab a ladder and a hammer and be in the roofing business. The lady at the local bank said they wanted someone who did roofing full time and had an ad in the phone book. The HVAC inspection they want a repairman to tell them the furnace and AC works.

I know I am not the first to run into this situation and would like to be able to inspect these VA houses. I feel (I Know) I give a better and more comprehensive inspection than just a roofer and a HVAC guy.

Comments, Ideas

Thanks I needed to vent a little

Willie

Willie, I know losing an inspection can be frustrating especially at the last minute. I suggest you begin marketing yourself to the lenders that loan on VA homes and also do a presentation to the local appraisers that appraise VA homes for this lender. I suggest you discuss your your services and qualifications. Unlike a typical home inspection, a home that has a VA loan is a bit different and if the appraiser predicates the loan e.g. requires additional inspections, the lender must order the inspections and can choose who they wish.

Also I disagree with Jim's statement about working for the buyer. In this case you are working indirectly for the VA through the lender NOT the buyer. Also you might report the same condition differently depending upon who you are working for. For example, during a normal home inspection you might report that a home has corrosion on a kitchen drain line and repair should be considered. In a VA loan situation, as an indirect representative for VA you have the authority to require the repairs be made and they must be done for the loan to go forward. Once the repairs you specify are completed you will often be asked to go back out to the house to re-inspect the repairs by the lender if they feel it's necessary. This typically happens when a handyman or homeowner have mad the repair. This process is also very similar to the HUD 203B loan program. A big difference betweent the HUD 203B program and the VA program is that the home buyer (veteran) can not make the repairs. They must be made by the home seller or their contractor.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

Don

[Jerry Peck]

This typically happens when a handyman or homeowner have mad the repair.

Therein lies a large problem with real estate sales in some states.

I don't know about your state, but in Florida, the homeowner or handyman *ARE NOT ALLOWED* to make repairs.

I will clarify that: *THE HOME OWNER* is not allowed to make repairs; *THE HANDYMAN* must be licensed as a handyman (if their city/county has such a license, otherwise they are not properly licensed to make repairs either) and then are only allowed to make minor non-structural, non-electrical, non-HVAC, non-roofing, non-plumbing, non-whateverislicensed types or repairs.

Let's see, that would be ... painting and caulking!

In Florida, a homeowner is allowed to do almost anything to their own home (with appropriate permits and inspections, of course) *UNLESS* ... (drum roll) ... the home is offered for sale or lease *WITHIN ONE YEAR* of making those repairs, in which case they are now operating as "unlicensed contractors" and can be so charged (which comes with up to a $5,000 fine and up to one year in jail, which also applies to anyone aiding and abetting that action, i.e., real estate agents).

You can do what you want to *YOUR* home, but if you offer it for sale or lease, the intent is that you are a contractor doing it for the purchaser/tenant ... not yourself.

Check you your state's contractor licensing law and see what it covers.

Any repair made by other than an appropriately licensed contractor is effectively 'not made' and cannot be counted toward the contractual obligation of the seller toward fulfilling their contract with the buyer.

[Thom Walker]

Willie,
Never let another Inspector get to you. Look at it this way. He was bragging about doing something you turned down. Is he even worthy of the time you spent pissed off!

Larry,
The three or four times that a prospective Client has had a lawyer call me before a job, I have instructed the attorney to call his Client and cancel the job. I keep it short. If he has time to call me on behalf of his "adult" client, then he his hungry. I have no intention of joining the food chain. Please call my competitors.

I willingly do jobs for lawyers as my Clients and for lawyers who represent Trusts, but when one calls me on behalf of a Client, I decline. It's a personal red flag moment.

Regarding bringing in th specialists, knock yourself out. I'm still doing my complete inspection and I'm still charging the full boogie. It's my time, as well as my expertise they're buying. If I'm there doing a piece meal job, I for less money I can't be somewhere else doing a real inspection for more money. It's that simple.

[Jim Luttrall]

Good points Thom.

Don, I respect your disagreement with me, but "I" do NOT work for the VA or lender unless they hire me. I work for the person who hired me ONLY and have doubts about the propriety of anyone who tries to split their allegiance. While the VA, FHA, etc. may work to protect the borrowers interest while protecting the equity of the loan, I have found most lenders care about the property value, not the borrowers.
I feel I have a responsibility to honestly protect the interest of my client only, not the lender, not the realtor, not the seller, not to be "fair to the house".
Jim

[Bruce Lunsford]

Jim,

The HUD / VA lender was wrong. Several years ago ASHI worked out some language for the HUD / VA handbook that specifially allows home inspectors to do such inspections. I used to have the paragraph number and such, but I haven't needed it for many years.

This was well in excess of 10 years ago this occurred.

[Don Norman]

Jim,

The HUD / VA lender was wrong. Several years ago ASHI worked out some language for the HUD / VA handbook that specifially allows home inspectors to do such inspections. I used to have the paragraph number and such, but I haven't needed it for many years.

This was well in excess of 10 years ago this occurred.

That's correct, Bruce. It's mortgagee letter 88-5. You can find the letter at the link

Error[no]&op1=AND&l=100&SECT1=TXT_HITS&SECT5=MLET&u=./hudclips.cgi&p=1&r=1&f=G

The lender, however, can choose who they want to use and as I understand it, it is within their right to decide who they want to use. Again I suggest taking a copy of the mortgagee letter to the head of underwriting for the lender and letting them know that in HUD's view, you are qualified.

And, lastly to clarify, I inspect homes for clients and have a contractual obligation to represent the home's condition accurately. So, if I'm working with a home buyer, for example, I'm representing the buyer, my cleint. I have, however, often been contacted by the lender to inspect predications from an appraiser for the 203B loan and never inspected the home for the buyer. If inspecting the home for the buyer and they are getting an FHA loan, you inspect it for the buyer's benefit, as obilgated, BUT you can also provide the lender copies of components that have been predicated provided the buyer gives you permission to do so. Buyers generally appreciate the "added value" this provides them. The preidicated components that do not meet current HUD requirements, typically code items for that municipality, must be repaired or the loan will not go through. The only time I've seen HUD allow a homeowner to make their own repairs was when they were qualifed, e.g. contractor, electrician, etc. and then the lender required me to go back and inspect their work.

There are two distinct hats required when doing this type of inspection. Home Inspector for the buyer (if you're hired to inspect the home) and another hat that represent's HUD's interests. While it might appear to be different, they are not at odds with one another.

Don Norman

[Dan Bowers]

I don't see a problem. I have it come up semi-frequently.

To be a nice guy, I'll deduct $15 for the 1st component they want excluded and $10 for the 2nd system. So the way you described it I would deduct $25 from my Whole House Fee, and disclaim anything even remotely related to the roof and A/C systems and in the report very blatantly explain that client and attorney requested that I NOT examine the ........, SO I did NOT and have no knowledge of the presence or absence of any defects at those areas.

Almost same money - less work - less liability - where is my problem?

Oh by the way when I do that I almost always find things the other guy didn't point out AND a few days after I've turned in my report, I may call client and politely ask - "Say what did the A/C or roof guy guy say about ......" "Oh you're kidding, they didn't - how horrible for you".

"Well Mr. Client, good luck and have a nice day".

With attorneys, I usually start out polite BUT then move in to close.

" Gosh no, I don't have any problem doing piece work, but you know how easy it is for stuff to fall through the cracks. For example, a buyer hires me to check the mechanical, plumbing and electrical components SO I do. Then they move in and find out the bathroom tile leaks and call me whining". "I politely tell them that tile is not mechanical and they need to call the attorney, realtor, lender, etc that told them to have the house inspected by 5 guys to find out who did the tile". Then I wish them a nice day & hang up.

[Rolland Pruner]

I would do my normal report and include that the roof and heating system was inspected by others. See report by others.
This takes a load off you.. (My opinion)

Rolland Pruner