Help with this mess

**Daniel DeCamp** · 02-27-2014, 09:06 PM

Inspecting a fuse panel and the main lugs have two and three conductors attached. Is this correct? They are going to a sub-panel and fuse box's. I believe is is incorrect. please help.

**Trent Tarter** · 02-27-2014, 11:13 PM

Yes the multi taps on main lugs is not allowed. I find this quite often with old fuse panels. People try to add all kinds wacky things to add additional circuits, they just need to update the main service.

Mbrooke · 02-28-2014, 12:33 PM

I see copper under aluminum in addition to double taps, both being issue alone worse together. Defer to electrician.

**David OKeefe** · 03-01-2014, 03:51 AM

There is also 30 amp fuses there.

**Nick Ostrowski** · 03-01-2014, 07:04 AM

Yes Daniel, the panel is wrong in every way. Unfortunately, seeing fuse panels with this type of wiring mess is not unusual, at least from my experience. The fuse panels have a very limited number of circuits and when the owners wanted to add on to the electrical system, they opted to have somebody finagle things instead of just paying for a new service panel that had more capacity. And when that happens, you end up with double taps, triple taps, multi taps on main lugs, oversized fuses, and just general fire hazards. When I see this stuff, I give it a big fat red F and recommend that the entire collage of boxes be pulled and replaced with one consolidated circuit breaker service panel. Some insurance companies won't even write policies on houses that have fuse panels.

**Rolland Pruner** · 03-03-2014, 07:54 AM

You have a Laundry list of problems, advise client to have an Electrical contractor evaluate and repair as needed with permits..

**Stuart Brooks** · 03-03-2014, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Rolland Pruner

You have a Laundry list of problems, advise client to have an Electrical contractor evaluate and repair as needed with permits..

I'll save Jerry the trouble: Why have an electrician "evaluate" something you have already evaluated. They may get some yahoo that will say there's nothing wrong with it. You found numerous deficiencies. Would it not be better to recommend repair or replacement as recommended by a licensed electrical contractor?

That's just me. I don't like to defer to others unless it something really in the best interest of the client. I have a note in my reports that states that there may be times when a contractor or tradesman may have a different opinion and that's okay. But they have to be willing to put it in writing and sign it.

**bob smit** · 03-03-2014, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Stuart Brooks

I'll save Jerry the trouble: Why have an electrician "evaluate" something you have already evaluated. They may get some yahoo that will say there's nothing wrong with it. You found numerous deficiencies. Would it not be better to recommend repair or replacement as recommended by a licensed electrical contractor?

That's just me. I don't like to defer to others unless it something really in the best interest of the client. I have a note in my reports that states that there may be times when a contractor or tradesman may have a different opinion and that's okay. But they have to be willing to put it in writing and sign it.

Ditto Stuart. Always state "Electrical Contractor". Stating "electrician" leaves your unsuspecting client vunerable. We've discusssed fuses on this site in the past, so I won't go there. We know proper fusing is a very safe & effective means for short circuit and overcurrent but most fuse panels will have outgrown their capacity in the last decades.

**Bob Wisnewski** · 03-06-2014, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Daniel DeCamp

Inspecting a fuse panel and the main lugs have two and three conductors attached. Is this correct? They are going to a sub-panel and fuse box's. I believe is is incorrect. please help.

Also keep in mind most insurance companies will not insure a house with a fused electrical system.

**John Kogel** · 03-06-2014, 08:27 AM

The multi-taps are all violations and fire hazards.
Call for an upgrade for safety. And insurance purposes.

I got a call from the listing realtor one time, "Is that a safety issue or just your recommendation?" It was a safety issue, so the seller paid up.

Al Neuman · 03-06-2014, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by John Kogel

David is correct, those 2 orange fuses look to be 30 amps, and that is a fire hazard.

The orange fuses are actually red, and are 20 amp.

Blue = 15 amp, Red = 20 amp, and Green = 30 amp

**John Kogel** · 03-06-2014, 01:48 PM

I stand corrected, even tho I'm sitting down.

**Jack Feldmann** · 03-08-2014, 04:28 PM

Bob W. - it must be a regional thing. People do not have a problem getting insurance on houses with fuses in my area.

As far as calling out for "evaluation" goes, here is what our State Standards of Practice say..

3. Submit a written report to the client that shall at a minimum:
(i) Describe those systems and components required to be described in paragraphs (7) through (16) of this rule;
(ii) State which systems and components designated for inspection in this rule have been inspected, and state any systems or components designated for inspection that were not inspected, and the reason for not inspecting;
2
(iii) State any systems or components so inspected that do not function as intended, allowing for normal wear and tear, or adversely affect the habitability of the dwelling;
(iv) State whether the condition reported requires repair or subsequent observation, or warrants further investigation by a specialist; and
(v) State the name, license number, and signature of the person conducting the inspection.

Check out (iv).