Coffee Makers...considered Hot Plates...???

**Mark Forman** · 03-24-2019, 12:34 PM

hello again...

Commercial Insurance (Loss Control) Inspector here...fist time in 6 years I have encountered this...a coffee make in a sleeping room (rooming house). Is it considered a hot plate? And is so, what code could I cite?

thanx,

dox

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**Jerry Peck** · 03-24-2019, 01:14 PM

A couple of questions:

- Do you have a photo of the coffee maker?

- Why would you consider a coffer maker a hot plate? (Maybe the photo would answer that?)

**Mark Forman** · 03-24-2019, 01:27 PM

it has a flat cooking surface containing a heating element

**Dom D'Agostino** · 03-24-2019, 02:29 PM

A lot of things have heating elements. (curling irons, hair dryers, soldering irons, Easy bake ovens, reptile terrariums, etc.)

If it's UL listed and labeled as a "coffee maker", it's not a "cooking surface", and it's not a "hot plate".

Dom.

**Jerry Peck** · 03-24-2019, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Forman

it has a flat cooking surface containing a heating element

If you are describing what I am envisioning, it has one, two, maybe even three four "warming" plates that glass coffee decanter are placed on to keep the coffee warm.

As Dom said, those are not "not plates".

Is someone using that as a hot plate? Maybe, but that doesn't make it a hot plate anymore than sleeping in a recliner chair makes the recliner chair a bed.

**Mark Forman** · 03-25-2019, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

As Dom said, those are not "not plates"

look fellas...

the definition of hot plate is 'flat cooking surface containing a heating element'.

The context here is that of a general liability insurance inspection, in a rooming house. sleeping rooms are not permitted to have hot plates, of any sort; and if the above definition doesn't describe a coffee maker, I don't know what does. generally speaking, If the occupant leaves the room w/ the coffee maker still on, it seemed to me that would constitute a fairly large liability issue.

I thought maybe someone here had some experience w/ this subject...or could provide some code reference, that's all...'cause on it's face value, a determination of that sort 'does' seem like an overzealous one. wasn't attempting to ruffle ay feathers...sorry

dox

**Jerry Peck** · 03-25-2019, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Forman

look fellas...

the definition of hot plate is 'flat cooking surface containing a heating element'.

Mark,

YOU said it was a "coffee maker".

That's what we're going on.

A "coffee maker" coffee warming surface is not "a cooking surface", you seem to be making a big deal out of nothing.

**Jerry Peck** · 03-25-2019, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Forman

If the occupant leaves the room w/ the coffee maker still on, it seemed to me that would constitute a fairly large liability issue.

If the occupant leaves the room and ANY appliance is left on (iron, coffeemaker, TV, computer) ... yes ... there is a risk.

And if the insurance policy and rules state "no cooking" ... that's one thing (and yet another to enforce and catch, but if they state "no hot plates of any sort", then look up how "they" define "not plate" (was that the definition you gave?), and if it says "cooking" surface, a coffee maker keep warm surface is "not for cooking".

If the definition says no "surface" with a heating element, then no coffee maker with a heated plate, no iron, not computer with a heat sink cooling surface, no etc.

**Dom D'Agostino** · 03-25-2019, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Forman

I thought maybe someone here had some experience w/ this subject...or could provide some code reference, that's all...'cause on it's face value, a determination of that sort 'does' seem like an overzealous one. wasn't attempting to ruffle ay feathers...sorry

dox

No ruffled feathers, and I'm precise with what an underwriter requests.

Coffee makers have been around for generations. If they thought they were a risk, it's be on their form or listed right next to "hot plate".

I like to keep it simple.

Dom.

**gary carroll** · 03-26-2019, 05:37 AM

The functional difference:

A teakettle or coffee maker heats a liquid (essentially water) and will not get hotter than 212 degrees f, so long as water is present. If it's working as designed, it would be really hard to start a fire with one of those.

A hot plate working as designed gets hot enough to start a fire if paper or cloth comes in contact.

It's reasonable to exclude one but permit the other.

A failed coffee maker could indeed start a fire. So could a failed radio, or computer, or other electric powered device.