Introduction

[mary gould]

Hi,

My name is Mary Gould and I am posting for the first time to introduce myself. I work in the insurance inspection industry.

I think this is a great website and look forward to posting more in the future.


Thank you,

Mary Gould
978-397-3725

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[John Arnold]

Hi Mary - Welcome to the asylum!

[Jeff Remas]

Hello Mary and welcome.

[Rick Sabatino]

Hi Mary. Welcome aboard.

[Ron Bibler]

OK You guys A Girl shows up and everybody is so nice

Welcome Mary. So mary give us some of the inside info on how we as inspectors can get on the inside of the insurance inspection game.

Got any inside info ? please do tell

Best

Ron

[Rick Hurst]

Welcome to the board, Mary.

Would you like a chocolate?

Rick

[mary gould]

Hello Rick,

Yes, please. I would very much like a chocolate. I appreciate the offer although technology has not yet caught up with Star Trek and we can't send food through cyberspace......yet.

Thank you.


Mary

[Ron Bibler]

Hello Rick,

Yes, please. I would very much like a chocolate. I appreciate the offer although technology has not yet caught up with Star Trek and we can't send food through cyberspace......yet.

Thank you.


Mary

Mary you don"t known Rick He can find a way...

[Ted Menelly]

Welcome to the board, Mary.

Would you like a chocolate?

Rick

Oh Rick

Always got your head somewhere.

Besides. You already have a Valentine.

[mary gould]

Since when did an offer of a piece of chocolate mean we were Valentines? I too have a Valentine of my own and it would take more than a piece of chocolate to drag me away from him....(wild horses and all that)

But seriously, back to business. Most of you are home inspectors, and I am in the insurance inspecting business. No licensing required, just measure the home to do a diagram, take photos of all sides of the home and any adverse conditions, fill out a report online for calculating the replacement cost, and enter any pertinent comments regarding any adverse conditions found at the property.

Any insurance inspectors out there would like to offer a response, please do. But in the world of home inspecting, if you went to inspect a "duplex" and find what appears to be a 3rd apartment - separate entrance, bath, bedroom, living room, kitchen in all senses except no oven/stove, but with refrigerator, sink, countertops, cabinets, microwave, etc. Is that technically a 3-family home, or does the mere lack of the oven/stove mean it's not a real kitchen and therefore not a 3rd apt?

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this matter for me.

Mary Gould

[Billy Stephens]

But in the world of home inspecting, if you went to inspect a "duplex" and find what appears to be a 3rd apartment - separate entrance, bath, bedroom, living room, kitchen in all senses except no oven/stove, but with refrigerator, sink, counter tops, cabinets, microwave, etc.

Is that technically a 3-family home, or does the mere lack of the oven/stove mean it's not a real kitchen and therefore not a 3rd apt?

.
Mary,

This would be a question for your local Code Enforcement.
.

[Ted Menelly]

If it is designated as a duplex that it certainly cannot be a triplex unless you go thru the city to do it.

I am sure the insurance company would rate it different as a three family than a duplex.

[Jerry Peck]

But in the world of home inspecting, if you went to inspect a "duplex" and find what appears to be a 3rd apartment - separate entrance, bath, bedroom, living room, kitchen in all senses except no oven/stove, but with refrigerator, sink, countertops, cabinets, microwave, etc. Is that technically a 3-family home, or does the mere lack of the oven/stove mean it's not a real kitchen and therefore not a 3rd apt?

Mary,

That is technically a duplex, but not because it does not have a stove/oven.

It is a duplex because it was constructed as a duplex, to become a triplex (3-family dwelling) it would require fire-resistance rated walls between all three units which extend up to the roof sheathing and fire-resistance rated roof sheathing or similarly protected, or the walls would need to extend 30" up through the roof as parapet walls.

If I were an insurance company and my insurance inspector said "There are three separate units in that duplex.", I, as the insurance company, would say "Thank you very much.", then call the insured-to-be and say "No way.", then pause, while they scream, then add "Unless you can provide documentation from the city/county that the conversion was done with permits, has passed all inspections, and has a certificate of occupancy as a 3-family dwelling." Either that or run a risk analysis and say "Yep, we can do that, but your rate is going to be $$$$$." - with that rate being 5 times the rate for a duplex ... after all, the insurance company is in it to *make money* and if they presume the risk is limited and you are willing to pay mucho dollars for coverage, they will limit the coverage and take your money.

[Ted Menelly]

Yeah. What Jerry said but with fewer words

[mary gould]

Thank you for all your responses, they have been very helpful.

There is a reason I mentioned the oven/stove which has to do with the replacement cost program I used in the example, and which I won't bother to go into further detail about.

Also, perhaps I should have been more specific and said that most often I see these in 2.5 or 2.75-story houses where upper level ends up being finished into what appears to be a 3rd apartment. One thing I know for sure, my clients want to know when I come across these. They want photos and comments on everything, because they will probably try to increase the rate to a 3-family.

Thanks again for all your sharing.

Mary

[L Kilhefner]

Mary,
As insurance inspector you must be acquainted with FS 718.111, I hope.
And, if you were an insurance inspector for a condo association you would make it easier (less expensive) for the association insurance if we talk about a broken water heater and water running thru ceiling and walls from a 4th floor to the first floor and maybe state that the condo insurance is not liable?

I am expecting a response from Jerry since I am still lost about the steps that I need to take on this situation.
Thanks anyway for your time.
L Kilhefner

[Jerry Peck]

But in the world of home inspecting, if you went to inspect a "duplex" and find what appears to be a 3rd apartment - separate entrance, bath, bedroom, living room, kitchen in all senses except no oven/stove, but with refrigerator, sink, countertops, cabinets, microwave, etc. Is that technically a 3-family home, or does the mere lack of the oven/stove mean it's not a real kitchen and therefore not a 3rd apt?

Technically it is a building code and zoning code violation as it is no longer a "duplex" as "duplex" means "two" and you just described "three" dwelling units in a structure originally designed for two, meaning firewalls and all kinds of things are going to be completely wrong and that is a mess to try to straighten out if the building department is awake at all.

[Jerry Peck]

I am expecting a response from Jerry since I am still lost about the steps that I need to take on this situation.

I was doing my taxes today ... ... but did briefly review your e-mail earlier in the day and I will try to answer it tomorrow. That is one reason I was not even on here until late this evening. Taxes are done, now I can start thinking again.

[Jerry Peck]

Mary,
As insurance inspector you must be acquainted with FS 718.111, I hope.

Mary is not in Florida.

- Chapter 718 CONDOMINIUMS
- - 718.111 The association.--

[mary gould]

Of course I immediately Googled FS 718.111, so now I am familiar with it. Still, not quite sure what it has to do with my question as I was not referring to condos.

Here in Massachusetts we have a lot of "duplexes" that are listed that way in public records but when you actually get to the house and do an interior inspection, you find that there are 3 electric meters, three mailboxes, at least 3 electric boxes, and either a finished basement with a 3rd apartment, or a finished attic with a 3rd apartment. I believe many of these are illegal 3rd apartments.

It is a question for each carrier to answer. Jerry Peck's answer on 2/13 was very helpful.

Thanks to all of you who offered your help.

Mary Gould

[Caoimhín P. Connell]

Hello Mary and Welcome:

I am not an home inspector and I know nothing about home inspection. I’m just a scientist, specializing in stuff like microbiology, toxicology, pot-stirring, and epidemiology. I'm afraid of spiders and electricity and I have a genetic predilection towards politically incorrect statements, but these guys are nice enough to tolerate my intrusions.

Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

PS: A few years ago, it was rumored on the internet that I had received $5 million dollars from the Hartford Insurance Company who had hired me to head up a “Mold Misinformation Office.” According to reports on the internet, I was also being investigated by an unidentified Federal Agency for RICO violations and fraud. Alas, none of that was true – given the current administration, had it been true, I would almost certainly have been short listed for a cabinet position.




(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG